this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2025
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El Chisme

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[–] prole@hexbear.net 109 points 1 week ago (5 children)

I'll never understand why it's so hard for some people to understand that the US is literally an evil empire that exploits, oppresses, and murders people all over the world. Of course all rightwing governments suck, but it's easy to see that the US is the primary enemy of leftist movements across the planet. If we want communism, we need the US to collapse and movements all over the place preventing the vacuum from being filled by something worse.

Idk seems like anyone left of liberals would understand this.

[–] TheModerateTankie@hexbear.net 86 points 1 week ago (3 children)

"I'm comfortable which means the US can't be that bad"

Similar reasoning for why suburbanites generally don't care about police violence.

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[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 50 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Plus, even if Russia wasn't much weaker than the US, I still can't do anything to affect them except support the Military Industrial Complex or their candidates. I'm not gonna do that anyway. So what does it matter if, emotionally, I like Russia? It's not like my "support" for them means anything.

[–] Z_Poster365@hexbear.net 43 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Right.

Any correct thinking leftist in the west would obviously be against their own government's imperialist actions. They should all support limiting military spending, aiding arms embargoes, withdrawing our forces, pushing for peace/ceasefires in all of our active conflicts, etc. Any anti-war hippie knows this, even the lib ones going totally on vibes.

So as long as you do that part, actually opposing your own empire in material ways as directly as you can, what does it matter your opinion on the russian or iranian states are? We aren't russian or iranian, we can't do anything to change their policies from without - all we can do is beat the drums of war of our own empire to do it on our behalf, which directly contradicts the goals above. What's the point in even bringing up how evil Russia or Iran are as a westerner? Whether they are pure saints or demons incarnate it doesn't change what your short-term tangible goals are, so why are you wasting time squabbling over it instead of getting to work?

There's a chinese saying... something like 'an egg cracked from within brings new life. an egg cracked from without is someone's meal'. This is how social progress must work, it must arise organically from within following the natural development of that society advancing. It cannot be imposed from without via violent force, and those who claim to do so are looking for a meal.

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[–] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 41 points 1 week ago

In many cases it's because they live in that empire and benefit from its economic subjugation of the world.

[–] GnastyGnuts@hexbear.net 31 points 1 week ago

The biggest problem reaching westoids really is just western chauvinism in the plain-ass dictionary meaning, but if you call it out it just sounds kind of gay and european to the Usian ear, so it's hard to get them to stop and register chauvinism as a bad thing and not just a funny thing to say.

[–] KoboldKomrade@hexbear.net 29 points 1 week ago

I feel like even before I became a socialist I realized this. Like it shouldn't be that hard (in the sense of breaking from stated liberal theory) to recognize it for the average lib... I could imagine a lib even being moderately successful in being aggressive against "conservative aggression costing us so much abroad".

Some conservatives and chuds seem more aware then the average lib about foreign meddling. Often its because they want to be isolationist/bring home fascism, but a lot of "average joes" at least say they don't see the point in constantly stepping in shit (that we left) overseas. Its really funny. Its like the conservatives yell about X thing abroad, but (some number) don't actually believe it to be a threat. But then the libs pick it up and unironically believe it. Like at this time, I'd expect more conservatives to say something like Iraq was bs that obama kept us in, then a liberal saying it was bs that bush dragged us into.

During college I got a lot of the "intellectual elite" libs saying that liberalism, free trade, etc, brings global peace and prosperity. Peace of Westphalia, magna carta, or w/e shit they pull out for "modern civilized" global-national organization.... All of it is just the weakest cover to pretend to be nice while being 20x as evil as they say Stalin was.

[–] Bruja@hexbear.net 102 points 1 week ago
[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 79 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'm a lot more anti-ethnic cleansing than I am pro-liberal democracy. If one side of a conflict is doing ethnic cleansing, and the other side's biggest failure (relative to the first side's) is not being a liberal democracy, I'm taking the side that's stopping ethnic cleansing 10 times out of 10.

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 70 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Also, FWIW, Ukraine's political system is obviously is at least as corrupt and antidemocratic as Russia, and the other obvious example is Israel, which doesn't even give equal voting rights to all Palestinians. So even if you were a Fukuyamist who only cared about which side is a liberal democracy, you still can't make the argument to support the West in either conflict just based on that. All roads lead to us-foreign-policy

[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 40 points 1 week ago

Really it’s more a question of how much red carpet they lay out for Western corporate interests. Saudi Arabia is a majority Muslim country led by a monarchy that offs journalists for being critical of them. But they get the pass from international-community-1international-community-2 because they play nice with the oil industry.

[–] Cimbazarov@hexbear.net 69 points 1 week ago (3 children)

In my experience people think im unconditionally for Russia if I make any criticism of Ukraine

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 47 points 1 week ago

It's infuriating. I've literally got that thrown at me IRL, by people that know I'm very active in anarchist groups...like fuck.

[–] Z_Poster365@hexbear.net 28 points 1 week ago (1 children)

that's why you just z post

They're going to believe that of you anyway

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[–] GnastyGnuts@hexbear.net 67 points 1 week ago (2 children)

jesus, they're gonna bring back "campists"? I thought they already exhausted that one past its expiration date back in 2020 or something?

"Campism" in practice always just looks like "knowing what side you're on and rooting for outcomes accordingly."

Streamers and other e-celebs who make their money off of "challenging people's ideas online" (contain your laughter!) hate the idea of people making up their minds and moving on.

[–] Z_Poster365@hexbear.net 45 points 1 week ago

Endless Debate Club is what they want. Endless content drama.

[–] BanSwitch2Buyers@hexbear.net 41 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Liberals keep raiding the Trotskyist piggybank for left-punching terms. Once campist gets used up in 10 years they'll go with "left-deviationist" or something.

[–] Z_Poster365@hexbear.net 36 points 1 week ago

They'll circle back to Stalinists eventually

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[–] CrawlMarks@hexbear.net 66 points 1 week ago (10 children)

Remember when she said she was going to become a white liberal woman and we laughed at the bit. I am starting to think it wasn't just a bit.

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[–] Mindfury@hexbear.net 66 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I am once again screaming into the void that is the yankoid skull "YOU GOT WHAT YOU FUCKING WANTED, YOU DISSOLVED THE USSR, YOU WON, PUTIN IS LITERALLY YOUR GUY, SHUT THE FUCK UP"

[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 41 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

The USSR was a vastly more rational geopolitical actor it's astounding the Yankoid brain still counts transferring control of a giant nuclear arsenal to a less reliable government as "winning."

I hate them. I hate them so fucking much.

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[–] sempersigh@hexbear.net 59 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Not interested in the takes of someone who has barely expended a breath calling out genocide

“No one is uniquely evil everyone is bad but Russia and non western countries are worse than the west; I deserve patreon bux for this highly novel opinion you can’t find anywhere else”

“I got depression because people got mad at me for simping for democrats in 2016, 2020, and 2024 and that’s my whole personality now it was really bad I was inside all the time and took drugs I had door dash for every meal and was able to always pay my rent/bills also the fact that you’re referring to that privilege is making me even more depressed and victimized”

[–] axont@hexbear.net 55 points 1 week ago

Hillary Clinton, a right wing genocidal oligarch and recipient of $2.3 million dollars of AIPAC money

Contrapoints leaping to defend her for some reason

[–] TheModerateTankie@hexbear.net 54 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

The US is a far-right oligarchy, especially when it regards foreign policy.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 41 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

it is uniquely evil as well (implied by context she disagrees with it, but not stated directly).

my boys from regrettable century were right, "neither washington nor moscow (but actually washington)" is kind of disease of some subtype of leftists since 70s (there is no moscow now even, so they just do "neither washington or insert_baddie_name (but actually washington)")

probably flows from ignoring imperialism and thus no campist logic leads one to "..except current one"

[–] TheModerateTankie@hexbear.net 30 points 1 week ago (1 children)

"Sure the US can be bad, but Russia/Iran/Syria/China is no angel"

Maybe she believes, like Obama does, that decade after decade of the US acting like a mafia with a trillion dollar army and using any and all means to pursue world domination is fine because it's better us doing it than them.

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[–] Gosplan14_the_Third@hexbear.net 51 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Ok Contra, but you don't support any opposition, State or non-State.

You don't have any problem with the state or capital, only see those running it as incompetent and wish they'd fulfill their part of the class collaborationism deal.

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[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 50 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I would like Natalie to tell me which western country will support any newly socialist country.

Of course we oppose them. These alternative enemies of the west will occasionally support socialist states.

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 33 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Does she even claim to be a socialist? She only ever talks about cultural issues and "deradicalization." I appreciate her for having been an important part of my process of learning about politics several years ago, but she barely talks about anything economic ever.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 29 points 1 week ago

Not to my knowledge but the point stands. Do not be surprised that the socialists oppose the countries that are our greatest enemies while being strategically supportive of reactionary countries that aren't our outright opponents.

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[–] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 49 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It's crazy that anyone who glazed Hillary of all people is taken seriously in any capacity amongst left leaning people.

To be fair, she had a good video or two...ten years ago. Now its just "look at me i have money and lol tankies mad." Its been that way for 9 years at least, I clocked that shit a mile ago.

If people pay you to live your life like that, cool, great, get the bag. But don't pretend to be some arbiter of the left when you're cozying up to hillary

Idk, I could be wrong, im speaking after not having seen any of her content for a decade....but something tells me im not.

"They dont want power, they want to critique power"

No fuck you we want power why did we spend all that time and effort trying to elect local socialists in my city? Why was PSL on the presidential ballot in a lot of states? What is wrong with critiquing power anyways?

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[–] AFineWayToDie@hexbear.net 46 points 1 week ago (2 children)

She talkin mad shit for someone who only has eight months until her next video comes out.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 31 points 1 week ago

paypiggies will pay anyway, she should do it bi-yearly, to commit to the bit biggus-piggus

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[–] woodenghost@hexbear.net 43 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Lenin invented revolutionary defeatism and it lead to the revolution. Luxemburg and Liebknecht said the main enemy is at home. From both follows, that the main task of leftists in the imperial core is, to oppose "our" imperialists. The ones we actually can affect. I'm happy if I see comrades in Russia do work against their oligarchy but I won't get tricked into supporting western oligarchs' NATO wars. Guess that's campist now? It just makes sense to spend time and resources where they actually change things - unless you don't really want fundamental change, because you enjoy your white western privilege too much.

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[–] Frogmanfromlake@hexbear.net 42 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That she’s responding to “Decolonize Russia” makes this post even more funny

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 29 points 1 week ago

is normal to follow nafo accounts, wdym

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[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 42 points 1 week ago

Don’t you know that Afghanistan is full of religious fundamentalists and that’s why all these backward people DESERVE to be bombed?

Saddam was a bloodthirsty dictator and that’s why half a million Iraqi people dying is a price that is WORTH paying for toppling his regime.

Putin’s war in Ukraine is objectively 10 times WORSE than the entirety of Hitler’s regime during World War 2.

[–] thethirdgracchi@hexbear.net 38 points 1 week ago (10 children)

I mean this isn't entirely wrong. I do think the Western powers are a unique evil that must be destroyed by any means necessary, and am willing to extent critical support to any and all who oppose their hegemony.

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[–] Chana@hexbear.net 38 points 1 week ago

Both criticisms are just making shit up because they are incurious. "Tankies" always have long explanations for countries they critically support in various actions or just, you know, don't racistly villify as existential evils.

[–] Goblinmancer@hexbear.net 36 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Calling people "campists" while retweeting the NAFO camp.

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[–] DragonBallZinn@hexbear.net 34 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

smuglord: “You and your purity tests, they’re the lesser of two evils!”

Oh, and doesn’t contra glaze far-right creators all the time?

[–] Z_Poster365@hexbear.net 29 points 1 week ago

She went on Hilary Clinton's documentary and had an interview with her and glazed her

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[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 34 points 1 week ago (2 children)

"campist"

Literally just "voting for the lesser evil" but applied to geopolitics.

[–] Z_Poster365@hexbear.net 41 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

except it's not even that.

We don't require that people "vote for Russia" or "vote for Iran"

We just require that our own nation doesn't attack others. We vote "No War" as opposed to "War"

The bar is so low for social chauvinists, all they need to do to be absolved of their sins of chauvinism is to oppose their own country's war. They can't even clear that.

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[–] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 33 points 1 week ago

She gained my suspicion the moment she started posting anti-vegan shit.

[–] iie@hexbear.net 33 points 1 week ago

"Niger should continue to be colonized by the French" - this woman

[–] CredibleBattery@hexbear.net 32 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

''campist'' is becoming the new Tankie lmao

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 30 points 1 week ago

Commie → tankie → campist → contraäntidisestablishmentarianist

Family Guy GIF: Cleveland Brown, apparently unconscious, is being pushed by a treadmill into a wall; when his body hits the wall, he rolls over himself, landing on the treadmill again in such a manner that he gets pushed into the wall again.

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[–] DivineChaos100@hexbear.net 27 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

They are uniquely evil tho and i'm pretty far from being a tankie

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