Great A'Tuin?
this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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turtles all the way down
we know math, 1+1=2, 2+2=4
really hard if not impossible to convince people otherwise
once you've set the axioms of math, everything else follows
Math is not really "knowledge of the universe" though, it's just the symbols and syntax we use to help map it when we try to understand the universe (through physics, chemistry, biology, etc.). Now, the maps that we have through maths can be extremely useful and very accurate to/representative of reality, certainly.
I am a Boltzmann Brain and there is literally nothing anyone can do to convince me otherwise...jk
For the moment
I forgot how this direction of philosophy was called. Avenarius was one of the main names... But it was debunked by philosophers themselves somewhere in the middle of the XIX century.
My go to response is usually “what do you mean by that?” Generally people say stuff like that to imply it’s impossible to “know” anything. But does it really matter if this is a dream or not?
Well, yes. Actually it does matter. Modern materialistic approach lets us assume that physical laws (no matter if we know them or not) are universal and applicable to anything. "Dream" concept leaves us in total chaos without even a theoretical chance to figure out how things work. It even has totally crazy synchronization problems between different "dreamers" if there are a few of them. There isn't a single question that is answered by Machism. Absolute religion-tier stupidity.
So it does matter.
Its not so different to Last Thursdayism.
It think its fine if it is used to keep you humble about the limits of knowledge, but I can't imagine using it to support any other point.
“Dream” concept leaves us in total chaos without even a theoretical chance to figure out how things work.
I disagree. There’s no reason the scientific method (observe, question, hypothesize, experiment, record data, draw conclusions) can’t be applied in dreams.
Just because your dreams aren’t consistent or logical doesn’t mean it’s impossible to have a logically consistent dream.
This is my thought. If we’re living in some dreamscape, why is physics so ruthlessly inflexible?
Maybe it's not. Maybe we are all tiny parts of same consciousness that creates the dream, which makes it consistent based on our shared expectations, or shared subconscious, or whatever connection it is that makes us one. Or something along these lines.
That would explain the consistency without relying upon rigid materialist laws.
Physics isn’t solved, so I don’t think it’s fair to call it ruthlessly inflexible. https://youtu.be/nn94mn8ozOI
In philosophy, It's a core concept called solipsism.
The encouraged answer to it is don't think about it and best to move on, even within philosophy, because asking the questions that actually matter about the nature of the mind and existence, are a terrible drain on productivity and GDP, and those are most certainly real and totes important things that must exist 🤣
Ah yes solipsism, the principle that we cannot actually know... anything at all... beyond knowing that we ourself exist in some form because we are presently thinking about it, be it as an algorithm running in a simulation, or a brain in a jar being tortured with hallucinations on some 5th dimensional being's shelf.
I remember chuckling to myself upon learning that the answer to this situation is just don't think about it because it isn't productive.
Problem with that is It seems like a perfectly rational argument against the pursuit of productivity.
Btw, for those saying solipsism, yes, it is a thing but it's not represented here. Frank didn't say "this is my higher being's dream and you're all part of it", he said "we are all in a lower level of reality to that of the external Creator". It's closer to Abrahamic monotheism than solipsism! 😅
ALL NIGHT LONG