this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2025
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[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There was also a vastly different media landscape when Dr. King made his speeches. The level of surveillance now is so much higher that its trivial to find or create footage of violence if you want it.

There is no level of discipline where the media will portray it as anything but violence. I don't think sanders is enterely wrong here, but I understand how in the year 2025 sander's statement is a bit cringe inducing.

[–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago

He probably was literally murdered by the surveillance state

[–] banshee@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

What are your goals with this post?

Edit

Found more details about Bernie's arrest here: https://medium.com/@ShaunKing/you-dont-really-know-who-bernie-sanders-was-in-the-1960s-79628016125f

I know it wasn't the point of this post, but thanks for teaching me about this bit of history! This helped me understand why he emphasized discipline.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Have people understand that being a progressive does not mean blindly following Bernie Sanders.

Because past Bernie stood for what present Bernie admonishes.

[–] banshee@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I won't pretend to know much about Bernie's history, but I do have a couple of thoughts with which you may or may not agree.

  1. We should never blindly follow any politician.
  2. Politicians should be expected to change/evolve. It's probably a good idea to consider the delta to understand each politician's trajectory.

Out of curiosity, do you prefer past or present Bernie?

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Past Bernie is the guy in the left image of the original Tweet. Who was attacked with the same slander as present Bernie is spewing.

[–] banshee@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Alright this got me curious, so I researched the matter further. I do believe you are wrong here.

From what I can gather, Bernie was arrested for being chained together with others to protest the installation of Willis Wagons. This was nonviolent. When the police arrested him, he kicked, screamed, and resisted the entire way.

Source: https://medium.com/@ShaunKing/you-dont-really-know-who-bernie-sanders-was-in-the-1960s-79628016125f

[–] cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The protests Bernie was part of were accused of being violent regardless of how Bernie and the majority of people protesting behaved. That’s the point. Hell if he resisted arrest in anyways today they might try to charge him with assaulting a police officer.

[–] banshee@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I understand they were accused of being violent. The descriptions I read didn't seem violent though, although they might be inaccurately biased.

I think protesters will always be accused of violence whenever possible. I just don't understand how this makes Bernie's statement inconsistent.

[–] cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You need to read more news articles from the times then and not just modern accounts of the civil rights movement. The media definitely portrayed the demonstrations as violent and destructive even when most demonstrators were peaceful.

I just don’t understand how this makes Bernie’s statement inconsistent.

Bernie’s focus is the problem here. The anarchists and provocateurs who want to engage in property description don’t care what Bernie has to say. The vast majority of protestors who are peacefully demonstrating are not responsible for their actions. Even then there are many instances of peaceful demonstrators trying to intervene and stop property destruction and violence. “Peaceful protest” is a common chant at these events.

If you have familiarity with all of this, then you’ll recognize that Bernie is just being needlessly condescending to those who are already doing the best that they can. Nobody needs lessons on how or why peaceful protests can be effective. What we need is leaders who are focused on the obscene violence being perpetrated by law enforcement and the current administration.

If you want a better example of how to respond to the current situation you don’t have to look far. AOCs statement is much better.

It is 100% carrying water for the opposition to participate in this collective delusion that Dems for some reason need to answer for every teen who throws a rock rather than hold the Trump admin accountable for intentionally creating chaos and breaking the law to stoke violence. They are in charge.

[–] banshee@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Thanks for the discussion. Just to restate - I absolutely believe everyone that the protests in which Bernie participated were described as violent. I was not disagreeing with this whatsoever.

You mention having "familiarity with all of this," and I do not. This is the only comment I read from Bernie about the protests.

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[–] callouscomic@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Arguing with the soldier next to you is definitely how world wars are won.

[–] cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

It literally is how wars have been won. Strategy is not decided upon in a vacuum.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Compromising with the right on every viewpoint. Surely that is the way to go.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago

Right winger : "Lets have a debate on who is a person or not"

Centrists: "okay"

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[–] Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 91 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (31 children)

This isn't at all the gotcha this person thinks it is.

Martin Luther King Jr. called for nonviolent resistance. The people resisted nonviolently, including Bernie Sanders. The media lied and called them violent, but MLK Jr. continued to call for nonviolent resistance in the face of that, and it worked.

Here, Bernie Sanders is doing the exact same thing. He's not suggesting that the protestors are violent any more than Dr. King was, as satirized by the propaganda cartoon. He's just doing the exact same thing - call for nonviolent resistance. No more, no less.

I know nuance is dead, but it is just insane to think this is a "gotcha." This person is the one "leaning into the hysteria" by assuming a call for action by itself is actually a condemnation of the protests.

[–] TassieTosser@aussie.zone 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Didn't MLK also work because the Black Panthers were lurking in the background? Either the establishment dealt with MLK or they dealt with the Panthers.

[–] Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago

They actually dealt with both unfortunately

[–] anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 2 days ago (1 children)

See if you can spot the difference between Bernie's statement and MLK's:

Let me say as I've always said, and I will always continue to say, that riots are socially destructive and self-defeating. ... But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to criticize Bernie for leaving that second part unsaid. Not to mention the point Hasan was making, which was picking this moment to talk about nonviolence - at a time when Trump is preemptively painting the protests as violent and insurrectionist - affirms Trump's framing and justifies police escalation.

I'm with Hasan here, this was tone-deaf of Bernie, if not completely hypocritical.

Bonus MLK quote:

These are the times for real choices and not false ones. We are at the moment when our lives must be placed on the line if our nation is to survive its own folly. Every man of humane convictions must decide on the protest that best suits his convictions, but we must all protest.

[–] Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 days ago (3 children)

MLK Jr.'s speech on riots being the voice of the unheard was powerful, and stabbed at the heart of a complex issue.

But a year before that speech, here's what he had to say about the Watts riots:

“What did Watts accomplish but the death of thirty-four Negroes and injury to thousands more? What did it profit the Negro to burn down the stores and factories in which he sought employment? The way of riots is not a way of progress, but a blind ally of death and destruction which wrecks its havoc hardest against the rioters themselves” (King, 12 March 1966).

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[–] callouscomic@lemm.ee 6 points 1 day ago

Nuance was never alive.

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[–] burgerpocalyse@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

would you rather a sitting US senator call for escalation and violence

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 day ago
[–] jwmgregory@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 day ago

in the face of his boss and his boss’s boss doing the same thing but to a much worse degree… yes? americans should be defending themselves from federal agents by any means necessary.

like it or not if the world only had MLKs we would live in a society that practices blood sacrifice or some absurdist shit. you need your Malcom X’s at times like this because the unfortunate reality is that the only power that begets peace in the face of political violence is often more extreme political violence.

sitting and doing performative takes on how we need to remain “nonviolent” or “peaceful” in the face of literal armed government goons coming into our cities against our will is peak pussy shit and you guys are all shameful for going so hard on that take. have some self fucking respect. will you be clamoring for peaceful protest when they’re deporting your family to an unmarked government camp somewhere across the world? no? so why do you think it should be any different for the people it has already happened to?

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 59 points 3 days ago (29 children)

I mean, yeah, he was there, being offensively non-violent. That's the point he's making. He knows how easy it is for the authorities to use any sort of physical (and sometimes even just verbal) aggression as an excuse to start to escalate things.

He's not saying "don't protest". He's giving tips on how to.

People please remember there are people actively posting Russian propaganda and trying to divide and break the US even further.

The first fight is against disinformation and propaganda.

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