this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2023

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How are lemmy and other fediverse platforms profitable? (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 years ago by Reddugee@lemmy.world to c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world

167 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Reddit migrator here (shocking, I know)

Just wondering because I found out about all this yesterday and just realized the ammount of independent servers, but no sign of any ads or sponsors. So... is it all based on donations?

Also don't just lurk, if you know you should answer because lemmy only counts users who posted or commented as active users.

(page 3) 49 comments

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[–] confluence@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

I think you might really be asking about sustainability, not profitability (profit is what you have after all the bills are paid). It's generally donation-based. I'm sure different communities will have different ways of soliciting donations.

For larger, expensive instances, I'm partial to determining the cost of running a single user over some period of time (say, 5 years), and posting that little datum on the community info. Then, each user that donates that amount gets a badge reward. Users that pay double the minimum get a different badge, and so on. Cycle the badges every n years. Some users will have fancier badges, displaying a kindness for the poor and badgeless. Cultivate a culture of gratitude for those who support, and you won't have to worry so much about not having enough.

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[–] iconic_admin@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Also don’t just lurk, if you know you should answer because lemmy only counts users who posted or commented as active users.

Commenting as instructed.

[–] pinwurm@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Lemmy is a non-profit that receives grant funding through NLnet's NGI0 Discovery Fund. And also - individual giving.

Individual instances can fund themselves how they want. Besides donations - there’s certainly a world where some servers start hosting sponsored content to keep afloat. Given that users have so many alternatives, there’s a limit in how much they could get away with.

There’s also a world in which small government would run and operate instances if this gets popular enough. No reason why somewhere like Estonia can’t do so as a promotion of their booming tech industry.

[–] tdawg@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

personally I think governments need to get more invested in hosting various forms of social media. People need platforms where they can openly discuss community issues where their representatives are obligated to respond. And this place needs to be free and open for everyone (i.e. not twitter)

[–] ttmrichter@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago

I like this idea, though I'm not sure a Lemmy-like format is best-suited for it.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Lemmy is a non-profit that receives grant funding through NLnet’s NGI0 Discovery Fund.

Okay, so I found the NLnet project page you alluded to and I've also checked Github and various pages on join-lemmy.org, but I haven't found anything that actually says how the project is organized from a tax perspective. I don't doubt @dessalines@lemmy.ml et al.'s egalitarian intent, but is it actually a an official non-profit organization (e.g. 501(c)3 or the equivalent in whatever country the project is incorporated in), or have they not yet bothered to do the paperwork to form a business entity separate from themselves as individuals, or what?

[–] pinwurm@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

On the website: Stichting NLnet is a recognised philantropic non-profit foundation according to the Netherlands Tax Authority (Belastingdienst). Here is a link to NLnet's Articles of Association, which is in Dutch.

To be honest, I'm definitely not interested in this enough to do anymore research than that, but you're welcome to run it through Google Translate and see if you find anything. And report back if you like. I'm not well versed in European (specifically Dutch) non-profit space to have an opinion on this. If it was American, that's a different story.

I do see that the the NLnet Discovery Fund is itself funded by the EU's Horizon Europe program (formally Horizon 2020). Here is some details on that.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The way I'm reading it is that NLnet gave the developers of Lemmy a grant, but unless I'm mistaken, that doesn't usually mean that the developers are working for NLnet. Does NLnet manage the project funds directly (e.g. paying the developers a wage, acting as the recipient for web donations, etc.) or did it just disburse the grant to some other tax entity (e.g. what your "articles of association" link calls a "stichting," I guess?) that actually represents the Lemmy project?

Honestly, I'm only just kind of idly curious myself. I could probably find out simply by messaging the devs and asking, but it's probably not worth bothering them. I suspect that, if they haven't already, they'll create a proper non-profit foundation later.

[–] pinwurm@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Grant recipients don't necessarily need to file as foundation. For example, college students receive grants.

It's very possible NLnet manages funds that pay recipients as 1099-equivilent contractors. At which point, all Lemmy has to do is document that their grant money is used to sustain the mission to the Foundation.

Fun to speculate, but again - I don't really care enough about this to dive much deeper, lol.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Grant recipients don’t necessarily need to file as foundation. For example, college students receive grants.

It’s very possible NLnet manages funds that pay recipients as 1099-equivilent contractors. At which point, all Lemmy has to do is document that their grant money is used to sustain the mission to the Foundation.

Right, in other words, they receive it as business income for their sole proprietorship (or general partnership, or incorporated business entity), not as wages as an employee of the entity that awarded the grant. Point is, whatever the entity is, it would be separate from NLnet and therefore not necessarily a non-profit just because NLnet is.

Also, if the Lemmy devs are still acting as an unincorporated sole proprietorship or general partnership (with all the donations and such being treated as personal income and with no separation between business assets and personal assets), then the fact that the project is hockey-sticking right now means it's probably about time to get serious and incorporate, both to protect themselves legally by separating their personal and business finances, and so that they can apply to be an official non-profit entity and make donations tax-deductible.

[–] OrangeCorvus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

As other people's said, profit is/should not be the driving force. However you should chip in every now and then towards the instance of your choosing. I have donated to lemmy.world and will do it again.

I see it as normal for the instance owners to have their costs completely covered and some extra on top for them for all the time spent.

[–] wargreymon@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I would like to see the host push ads, so that it's sustainable. It doesn't have anything negative to the community except it will sustain the instance do does the Fediverse.

[–] CentreMetre@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Ive seen some things (totally unrelated mobile apps) make ads optional. I think its a good idea if youre iffy about having them but do need them to keep the site up, im sure people would be happy to enable ads to support these types of sites. Plus cant be any worse than the shite youtube has for ads

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[–] BobQuasit@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The internet and even the web didn't need profit for many long years before the web went commercial. I've been publishing my own website since 1996 without advertising or asking for donations. I just publish it because I love the topic. Profit is NOT the be-all and end-all of existence.

Don't believe me? How much would you sell your children for?

[–] NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Which ones?

[–] CaptThax@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sounds like you are about to pick a name...

[–] NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

Lies and Blasphemy!!!

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