this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
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[–] EmmaGoldman@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm sure this will go exactly as planned for the US and its no industrial infrastructure. This certainly won't drive Europe to buy things from China.

[–] protist@mander.xyz 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

You seriously sit there thinking the West, and the US specifically, has no industrial infrastructure?

Wait, what is this instance? Am I supposed to be in on some joke?

[–] EmmaGoldman@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Yes bro, the US totally has all of the industrial infrastructure needed to supply 100% of its own needs as well as 100% of Europe's needs. The US hasn't significantly shrunken its industry, the rust belt doesn't exist and the Midwest is entirely full of successful union factory workers, and the US definitely isn't disproportionately the largest importer of goods on the planet.

Clearly you're just not familiar with hyperbole. I don't literally mean that the US has absolutely no industrial infrastructure whatsoever, I'm being cynical and criticising the idea that the US will be successful in its ability to deliver the goods necessary to capture the entire European market for virtually everything.

Deindustrialising Europe for the purpose of forcing Europe to buy everything from the US will not work when the US cannot export anywhere near enough to meet European demand, nor are American capitalists willing to rapidly scale up manufacturing on the level required to even attempt to do so. This will only lead to Europe finding other trade partners with the capacity to do so, such as China.

[–] protist@mander.xyz 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Deindustrialising Europe for the purpose of forcing Europe to buy everything from the US

Bro, where is this happening?? This entire argument seems predicated on falsities

[–] Gosplan14_the_Third@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

High energy prices due to the start of the Ukrainian War and the European insistence on following in America's footsteps and separating itself from the Russian market as well as normal methods of profit-driven behavior from capitalist companies (I.e. outsourcing) meant that European industry had a disadvantage in the form of higher production costs compared to their American counterparts, especially when paired with for example measures to saveguard American industry like the Inflation Reduction Act (something that was complained about by politicians in Germany, where I live). Add to that stuff like the Nordstream Pipeline, which was mentioned below, where there's a strong suspicion It was done by at least pro-American forces to keep Europe from re-establishing Trade ties with Russia... or the additional angle of getting it to buy American LNG exports (might be a case of unintentional, but welcome effect).

Under a free market economy, if a company can't profit or doesn't profit enough - no matter the usefulness of the product or its position in the supply chain - it closes, relocates, downscales and so dependencies are created as well as oligo- and monopolies. If say Volkswagen and other German car manufacturers went bankrupt and Chevrolet took a dominant role in the market, it would be difficult for a new German manufacturer to reconquer the market share. It would be expensive, it would be behind technologically, it would need to force its workers to worse conditions, while imports would be simply cheaper.

Being unable to get rich from business makes the local wealthy get really angry, and support political views that promise to cut off dependencies and allows them to regain market share. Because they're not going to voice support for a movement that wants to place economic sectors under worker control, you get a lot of support for fascism, which than turns even previously friendly relationships into competitive ones and possibly even Wars until possibly a new balance is reached.

Due to ways capitalism works, such as the way selling goods and services for a profit becomes more challenging the more competition there is (because there's less people buying your stuff) unless there's a way to keep expanding (which in the post-1990 World is pretty difficult... unless you're willing to undermine the already existing competition), this is basically guaranteed to happen and historically the reason why the big world wars have happened.

Crises like the aftermath of the start of War in Ukraine only make the process faster for some countries (in this case, the EU) and slower for others (the USA)