this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2025
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MeanwhileOnGrad

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Meanwhile On Grad


Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!


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It's not fun interacting with them when they often want to engage in ad hominems. This is why I have no interest in the tankie triad.

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[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Every single one of the issues you’ve listed, you’ve reframed it into something different than it was. Neopronouns were never the issue, it was blahaj shielding a transphobic troll from criticism and banning people who complained about them (complained about them while using accepted pronouns, usually while explicitly saying ‘yes I’m fine using people’s pronouns’), purely because the troll cleverly decided to involve neopronouns into the issue. And then pretending that anyone who was on the “enemy” side was obviously a pronoun-hater and that was the entirety of the issue.

That's your framing of the situation.

An alternative perspective is that the "pronouns cannot relate to imaginary creatures" is gender gatekeeping.
Drag was potentially trolling, but if nobody ever took the bait, nothing would have happened.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/39039162

We can all yell at him, insult him, nothing needs to be justified

People brought justifications

In some forums, that kind of thing is disallowed. If you make personal attacks or insults, you get mod action

Direct attacks are usually removed

You had your politics but you weren’t dishonestly attacking

I'm am going to be honest with you, I didn't expect you to make this kind of comments

Cool! Now accuse him of caring way too much about politics, and getting in heated debates about it like a LOSER, speaking as you are from your lemmy.ml address. That’ll make perfect sense too.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/49571446/20291493

Also, not sure why it's not okay for dbzer0 to have a "our users" stance while you broadly categorize all .ml users as "losers"

[–] PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Good God. Okay, you asked for a response, here is it.

An alternative perspective is that the "pronouns cannot relate to imaginary creatures" is gender gatekeeping. Drag was potentially trolling, but if nobody ever took the bait, nothing would have happened.

Using unusual pronouns was never the issue. It's insanely common on blahaj for people to use neopronouns, and nobody bats an eye, because it's normal. Pretending that being trans is equivalent to being a dragon (along with things like encouraging other users to self-harm, because of course this person did, because they are a troll and trying to be cruel to trans people) was the issue.

I cannot fathom how me repeating this for the nth time here is somehow going to make a difference, but whatever. You said something, I've replied. Can I go now?

People brought justifications

Fair enough, there were some things that people justified, I shouldn't have said "nothing" I guess. My argument is that there was a ton of stuff that was not justified, and some of the criticism once we got down to actual events motte-and-baileyed its way back from "he is a Zionist who deletes any criticism of Israel and a transphobe" and into "he gets mad arguing about politics and I don't like that", and some of it was literal just random abuse and cursing at him, not connected to any type of event or behavior at all.

Direct attacks are usually removed

Direct attacks in some contexts are removed. In other contexts, they're allowed. That was my point. I'm actually fine with either policy, broadly speaking, but starting to forbid mild attacks towards friends and allow wild, profane, fact-free attacks towards enemies is a bad road to start to go down. That was much more the core of my point.

You had your politics but you weren’t dishonestly attacking

I'm am going to be honest with you, I didn't expect you to make this kind of comments

Pretending that PJ is pro-Israel is flagrantly dishonest. It's also working very well. That's a good example. Not sure what your complaint here is, I don't really want to dig through the thread picking out stuff that's objectively untrue, but that's one example if you're saying you don't believe me about it.

Also, not sure why it's not okay for dbzer0 to have a "our users" stance while you broadly categorize all .ml users as "losers"

I addressed this already, I never said people who care about politics are losers. I am a person that argues way too much on and off the internet about politics. My point was that for lemmy.ml to suddenly feel like caring about and arguing about politics on the internet makes someone a weirdo is just another example of the sort of tribal "it's fine with I do it, but when you do it it is evidence you're some kind of terrible thing" thinking that I am trying to call out.

Satisfied? I've already talked about literally all of this, I'm not interested in going back and forth about it just without end. But sure, there's your response if you want one.

[–] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 week ago

https://sopuli.xyz/post/30935971/18041817

As said in the other comment, it's good that you clarified the "loser comment"

Beyond that, we discussed most of the stuff in the other comment

Just to reiterate,

It’s up to you. I think it would be good to have another !yptb community that’s not satire or a one person creation.

You could potentially enforce more respectful discussions there.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

"He was (potentially) trolling, but if noone took the bait..."

Ah yes, let's just excuse the inciting actions and blame the targets of harassment!

You are a victim blaming moron, and you've made it perfectly clear right there.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] Diva@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

People can use whatever pronouns they want and anyone pitching a fit about it are the ones who deserve scrutiny as far as I'm concerned.

Drag always rubbed me the wrong way, always ready to jump right to calling people tankies without much interesting conversation to be had.

If someone is trolling I'm going to ban them when they violate an actual rule, like telling people to kys, because anything else opens up the field for people like Pug to declare who is and isn't trans based on if they like their pronoun choice.

Responding to PugJesus below me as I can't interact due to their ban:

From my POV, you are pitching a fit over the pronouns by harping on about 'not believing dragons are real' - heres an example of you misgendering with 'his' while doing so. That invites extra scrutiny.

in this thread the person was banned for saying "I don't think it's an unfair line to draw. We draw it at what's real and what's not. Gender as a spectrum is real."

you replied in one comment saying

… transphobia is when you don’t believe in dragons?

How curious.

What I conclude from this:

When you are talking about belief in dragons what you are really doing is using that in as a stand-in to say ' only genders that are 'real' are acceptable to use'. That is gatekeeping.

here you are doing it he same routine to a trans woman in that same thread. You called her a child and insane for saying 'you don't get to question someone's identity'.

I don't believe in any magical creatures, but drag and anyone else should be able to use whatever pronouns they want because fuck gender.

[–] Blaze@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 week ago
[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I never said Drag wasn't trans. I never said that Drag's neopronoun choice was invalid. I always made an effort to use Drag's pronoun. But lying is the only tool you have, isn't it?

[–] Rose@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Would it be transphobic to say "I'll use she/her for you but I don't believe you're a woman, as that's against the objective reality of biology"?

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)
  1. I was specifically and repeatedly accused of not using Drag's pronouns, including in the comment I responded to, since that's an easier sell to most people to slander someone on.

  2. Women exist. Dragons do not.

[–] Rose@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Women exist. Dragons do not.

Exist in what sense? Again, is it rooted in something like biology or social assignment in your view, or is it based on the existence of people self-identifying as such? If the former, why do you not take issue with singular they? If the latter, what's the difference between that and "dragon"? Would you argue there are no people who genuinely use "dragon" as their pronoun? There are certainly quite a few who use "fae/faer", so it wouldn't be a significant leap.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Exist in what sense?

In the sense of existing in the real world.

If the former, why do you not take issue with singular they?

Why on earth would I take issue with a grammatical usage case that predates Shakespeare?

Would you argue there are no people who genuinely use “dragon” as their pronoun?

Why would calling themselves something and asking others to call them something inherently make them something a human being literally cannot be on account of it being a fantasy creature?

[–] Rose@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Words are defined and redefined based on their real world usage, so if there were enough people describing themselves as dragons, the definition could be updated to account for that. Denying or ridiculing novelty or unorthodoxy would hamper progress in any movement, be it for religious freedoms or trans rights.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

At the same time that doesn't give carte blanche for any word to mean anything. I could start using the word 'conservative' to mean 'socialist', but it would be ridiculous for me to attempt to force others to maintain that same usage, or even force them to acknowledge the usage's validity. The fluidity of language is not an argument for absolutist individualist interpretations of language, which is nothing less than an argument for the ultimate incoherence of language. Language changes with mass usage, not automatically with individual usage.

Language is a form of communication first, and ornamentation second, not vice-versa.