this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2025
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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 83 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Explanation and some thoughts: First, I would like to note, in unfortunate if mild agreement with the PragerU bullshit, that the development of slavery in settled societies was an improvement over genociding all the defeated enemies. As societies develop, conflicts with ever-further-flung foes means that societies cannot integrate peoples who are extremely hostile and culturally distinct into the polity without extensive assimilative institutions, which are fairly late developments in most societies. This leaves either expelling the enemies, murdering them, or reducing their ability to resist (ie through the restriction of their liberty). As population densities increase, expulsion ceases to be an option - leaving only murder or reduction of the defeated's state. This is not an excuse for the individuals who participate in the institution of slavery (with the odd reinforcing note that even in many slaver societies, slave traders and overseers are seen as utter scum), but that, on a societal level, slavery is an unfortunate lesser evil compared to genocide. This is a large part of the reason why slavery is so widespread in human history, across vastly different cultures and regions, and in societies where the economic influence of slavery remains minimal.

HOWEVER

First, the Atlantic Slave Trade was not based on this unfortunate development of early human society - it was the trade of flesh for cash by European societies which not only had developed means of overcoming resistance by legal institutions WITHOUT resorting to slavery, like earlier polities, but were not even seriously involved in the wars on the African continent at the time, making their involvement purely and objectively a fucking evil, not even a lesser evil like early slavery, but a greater one. The Europeans fueled wars between African tribes on the continent (who were largely restricted by the aforementioned circumstances making slavery the least-bad option after intense wars) all in the name of buying cheap slave labor, because the prospect of paying a decent share to their own Filthy Poors(tm) was too much for their precious little pocketbooks to handle.

Second, Christopher Columbus was a piece of shit by the standards of a time wherein we would regard the 'baseline' of behavior as representing total pieces of shit. Not only was he a slaver before he became a explorer, but when he found and was welcomed by the people of the Caribbean with gifts and supplies after a long journey, his first instinct was to plunder, murder, and enslave them. If that wasn't bad enough, his treatment of them after being granted control of the region was so abhorrent that the Spanish crown, itself hardly a bastion of humane treatment and sentiment, stripped him of his position on grounds of cruelty.

And third, offering someone a choice between slavery and death for the crime of existing while being weaker is not a fucking good thing, and certainly not something that a fucking children's 'educational' program should be playing apologist for. The 'nuances' of slavery should not exactly be high on the fucking curriculum.

[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 32 points 2 days ago

I prefer to use the term “slightly less morally reprehensible.”

[–] ArgentRaven@lemmy.world 23 points 2 days ago

And Columbus was thrust into our history as this noble explorer because the Catholic Church wanted an exciting figurehead to rival groups like the Knights of Pythias.

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Christopher Columbus was a piece of shit by the standards of a time

Should I stop liking Home Alone and Mrs. Doubtfire?

[–] jve@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Wait, what’s wrong with Home Alone?

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Directed by Chris Columbus

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago

Should I stop liking Home Alone and Mrs. Doubtfire?

I could never ask anyone to make such a massive sacrifice as that!

[–] SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

When in human history did conquerers not also take slaves from those they conquered?

As far as I understand, the practice goes back to the Akkadian empire. I’m not saying taking slaves is good or natural. The thing I see as problematic from your assertion; is that slavery was at any time in human history a form of progress. I don’t see any reason to make such concessions to the right.

If they want to paint themselves in apologia for slavery, we should mock them for it.

(Edit: Which to your credit, is what your meme is doing.)

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

When in human history did conquerers not also take slaves from those they conquered?

Pre-state societies, ie chiefdoms, tribes, and bands in the anthropological sense, generally do not take slaves as they lack the social mechanisms for consistently restraining the liberty of individuals. Expulsion or genocide are generally the results of insufficiently similar groups that are defeated.

[–] Danquebec@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago

I've read of genocide (massacre of all males, even the children) of a defeated Yanomami village by a victorious one. Same culture, yet they commited genocide.