this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2025
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Israeli settlers in the occupied West Bank have beaten to death a United States citizen in his early 20s, the victim’s family members and rights groups have said.

“We are aware of reports of the death of a US citizen in the West Bank,” Reuters reported a State Department spokesperson as saying. The official declined to comment further “out of respect for the privacy of the family and loved ones” of the reported victim.

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[–] davel@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Whataboutism is itself a thought-terminating cliché.

Citations Needed podcast: Whataboutism - The Media's Favorite Rhetorical Shield Against Criticism of US Policy

Since the beginning of what’s generally called ‘RussiaGate’ three years ago, pundits, media outlets, even comedians have all become insta-experts on supposed Russian propaganda techniques. The most cunning of these tricks, we are told, is that of “whataboutism” – a devious Soviet tactic of deflecting criticism by pointing out the accusers’ hypocrisy and inconsistencies. The tu quoque - or, “you, also” - fallacy, but with a unique Slavic flavor of nihilism, used by Trump and leftists alike in an effort to change the subject and focus on the faults of the United States rather than the crimes of Official State Enemies.

But what if "whataboutism" isn’t describing a propaganda technique, but in fact is one itself: a zombie phrase that’s seeped into everyday liberal discourse that – while perhaps useful in the abstract - has manifestly turned any appeal to moral consistency into a cunning Russian psyop. From its origins in the Cold War as a means of deflecting and apologizing for Jim Crow to its braindead contemporary usage as a way of not engaging any criticism of the United States as the supposed arbiter of human rights, the term "whataboutism" has become a term that - 100 percent of the time - is simply used to defend and legitimizing American empire’s moral narratives.

[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

That's an interesting excerpt. I always thought the proper response to an identified whatabout is to simply say "I asked you first." -That's assuming the opposite party refused to respond to the initial premise, argument, or question. I imagine if they did respond to the initial premise, argument, or question then asking whatabout... is just a standard form of discussion and debate, or so I'd think.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world -2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The modern whataboutism is the bothsidesism.

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Basically a straight up admition that they're both meaningless though terminating cliches

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Basically a straight up admition that they’re both meaningless though terminating cliches

Another straw man. You guys are on a roll.

What is cliché is resorting to strawman arguments and whataboutism/bothsidesism when your dogmatic incantations don't win the day. They are the refuge of the weak. Attempting to devalue the ideas is a transparent effort to reduce the impact of your weakness being labelled, It's the same as white supremacists loudly calling out Godwin's Law when they are rightly labelled as Nazis or Zionists labelling legitimate criticism of the actions of the state of Israel antisematism. Mike Godwin himself said, "By all means, compare these assholes to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you."

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Man, you really can't stop yourself from talking like the biggest reddit smuglord loser alive

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Ad hominem. You just can't help yourself.

Have a good faith conversation. As long as you use these super weak devices I'm going to call them out. I don't care what names you call me or what insults you hurl.

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 1 points 16 hours ago

Still going down your list of magic debate spells, wandering why none of them are working