cross-posted from: https://crazypeople.online/post/2634649
cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/65824884
Hey everyone
We’re really sorry to say this, but lemm.ee will be shutting down on June 30, 2025.
What you need to know
As of now:
- New user registrations are disabled
- Creating new communities is disabled
What you should do:
- You can export your settings at https://lemm.ee/settings to take them with you to another instance.
- If you're moving to another instance, consider adding a note to your lemm.ee profile with your new username. Your old profile will still be visible from other instances even after we go offline.
- Alternatively, if you want to delete your lemm.ee profile, now is the best time to do it, so the deletion can federate out before we go offline.
- If you're one of the folks supporting us with a recurring donation, please remember to cancel it (Ko-Fi donations should have been cancelled automatically already). Our leftover funds are already enough to cover our bills for next month, so we can keep things running without any more support.
Because of how Lemmy is built, everything posted on lemm.ee will still be accessible from other instances, even after we go offline.
Why this is happening
The key reason is that we just don’t have enough people on the admin team to keep the place running. Most of the admin team has stepped down, mostly due to burnout, and finding replacements hasn’t worked out.
The sad reality is that while there are a lot of great people on Lemmy, there are also some who use the platform to attack others, stir up conflict, or actively try to undermine the project. Admins are volunteers who deal with the latter group on a constant basis, this takes a mental toll. Please understand why our admins chose to step down, and be kind to the admins on whatever instance you decide to join.
We know this sucks. We're genuinely sorry it’s ending like this. Thank you to everyone who spent time here and helped make it better.
– lemm.ee team
@Blaze@feddit.org (or is it @Blaze@piefed.social now?), I hate to say "I told you so", but I hope you understand now why I was so against recommending people to create communities on lemm.ee, and I especially hope you don't take this a sign that you should start promoting/directing people to create communities on piefed.
Why not? What is the issue with Piefed?
The same issue of lemm.ee, lemmy.zip, or any other instance you've tried to push so far: they will all crumble under their own weight.
If the reason not to create a community on instance X is because instance X may someday disappear... isn't that true of all instances? No one knows what the future may hold for any instance.
Might as well pick somewhere that's present today, and if the worst case scenario happens, we can always move. I would even argue one of the greatest strengths of Fedi is that no matter what happens to any one instance, the network is still standing.
That is not the reason, you are getting it backwards.
I am saying that smaller instances will be more likely to disappear if we force them to be destination of communities. If we leave them be only for users, the strain on them will be smaller and the likelihood of them crashing or the admin burning out is smaller.
@rimu@piefed.social has been offering to host some communities, so it's not like Piefed.social is being forced to host them.
Piefed is the flagship instance of the project. I can understand why he would want to have communities there, but don't tell me that this is not a push for decentralization. It is not.
Piefed.social is a small instance, hence allowing for more decentralization. Not sure why you're pretending it's not.
Define small, because last I checked the number of communities there is anything but.
396 active users: https://piefed.social/about
It's around slrpnk.net activity, less than beehaw: https://lemmyverse.net/?order=active_month
And 65 communities. That's crazy.
Also as much as everyone is like, "host everything on Piefed" didn't you see how that burned out the other developers that have tried. We need more decentralisation, not more centralisation.
At least half of them are empty / inactive
At this moment, 9 out of the 10 most active communities are on LW: https://lemmyverse.net/communities?order=active
You have to scroll 3 times to see !television@lemm.ee, the first Lemm.ee community.
If all of the communities on Lemm.ee would move to Piefed.social, that wouldn't change anything. Most of the communities would still be on Lemmy.world. Most of the users would still be on LW.
The main pro of Piefed is the community migration feature (https://piefed.social/post/667044), that I just used (https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/45876492)
Admins, not developers.
If the move you're suggesting is to move to the network of instances managed by communick, that's even more centralization, as all of those instances rely on a single person.
I'm suggesting moving one community.
Which is an issue
Which makes it even more unfortunate that lemm.ee is biting the dust.
It's a bad practice. Spread the communities across Lemmy so things like mass migrations need not happen ever again.
"Pro" it's rewriting history and undermining the integrity of the whole protocol, let alone platform. There's a reason neither Lemmy nor Mastodon do it.
Is Rimu not both the admin and the main developer?
Fair
It's unrealistic to expect every community to have a dedicated instance. I am looking for a place for the following communities
Should I really expect a "casual conversation" or "movies" instance to show up, when we only have a few active admins, on a few reliable instances?
Lemmy.film was specialized, and went down. Lemmy.one was specialized for privacy, and went down. Having to move 5 communities from specialized instances when they go down isn't that different from moving 5 communities from a generalist instance that was up for 2 years.
I was trying to grow !photography@discuss.online for months. Then I let it go, because I was basically shouting into the void. I now prefer !photography@fedia.io , but as it's on the flagship Mbin instance, it's probably too centralized for you?
And don't get me wrong, you know how I usually favor decentralization. It's just that this time we have to migrate quite a few communities at the same time, so having features like community migration definitely helps. Also, having better mods tools (https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/) hopefully will also help with mod burnout compared to Lemmy.
Mastodon still allows account migration. Being able to migrate the content is valuable in this case.
Correct, but in Lemm.ee's cases, they were admins, not Lemmy devs.
I didn't suggest that. While yes some instances have failed, lemmy.studio lives, db0 lives, rblind lives, lemdro.id lives.
Mastodon doesn't migrate content.
It's not the its size in relation of the Fediverse that I am talking about. It's its size in relation to universe of Piefed instances...
Is this true for LW as well?
It is less likely for LW because they are (in Fediverse scale) "too big to fail" but still possible.
I don't think "too big to fail" is as much of a factor here as the fact that LW is not the only FHF platform. Fedihosting Foundation, the non-profit behind Lemmy.World and our other platforms, existed before Lemmy.World already. While the Lemmy moderation team is working mostly independently from the rest of FHF, if the LW admin team disappeared there would still be FHF in a position to search for new admins and probably also at least temporarily step in without requiring to shut down the instance.
Is the backing of FHF that significant? Do they have resources for hiring professional admins in case Ruud or Stux decide to say "screw it, I'm out"?
If it does, then why does Stux need to go around panhandling to make rent?
Ruud and Stux are not the only people involved.
I'm personally only involved in Ruud's side of things (mostly .world instances). Stux' platforms are managed separately, I can't say too much about those. Afaik finances between Ruud's instances and Stux' instances are also separate.
On the .world side, we currently have 6 active members for infra. For moderation, LW currently has 4 active instance admins plus some community team members with elevated privileges. Other .world platforms have moderation separate from LW. We certainly don't have resources to hire professional admins, but I'm sure that we would find a viable solution if Ruud ever wanted to leave things behind. Not all solutions require paying someone a salary for it, which seems to be your implication here.
Beyond "raise enough resources to pay a professional", can you think of any solution that is not a variation of "keep finding fresh volunteers to work until they burn out"?
I don't see another option than volunteer-run instances or professionally run instances. And for professionally run instances you need funds (so paid subscriptions) and for volunteer-run instances you need volunteers...
In my experience, as long as there are enough active users, you'll find enough volunteers.
There is the co-op model. Membership on https://cosocial.ca/ requires a $50/year contribution and every member has the right to participate in discussions regarding governance. Because of the steep admission price, the instance is relatively small in size and it does not demand a lot from the people working on it.
how would paying admins prevent burnout? the only difference i see here is that it is probably easier to find people willing to do it as a paid job than volunteers, but they can both burn out. this would just change it from "keep finding fresh volunteers" to "keep finding fresh job applicants".