@rumba @mtchristo To gently disagree with you here: UI/UX work is absolutely not art, and in fact, this painting of the profession as some artsy fairy-dust non-technical creative magic is a big part of the reason why FLOSS projects have trouble attracting designers—they don't respect their work.

UI/UX makes broad use of scientific evidence as to how people see, perceive, and interact with things around them. Conducting studies is literally part of the job at large companies, and those who do not have the budget rely on resources like reports from the Nielsen Norman Group to get up to date information on topics such as how people's eyes scan a page, how content influences this, effectiveness / interaction rates of different design patterns, et cetera.

Unfortunately for the odd designer who does wind up in a discussion on a merge request on GitLab, their expertise is often treated as a difference of creative opinion by developers who know nothing about basic design principles such as gestalt psychology.

The problem of poor UX in FLOSS can't be attributed to a lack of talent; the fact is that FLOSS projects are not hospitable environments for designers, both technically and culturally. For a start discussions happen on GitLab et al, platforms which are confusing to people who aren't developers. And then, whereas if a non-technical user started arguing with devs on matters they don't understand they'd be booted from the discussion, devs who clearly don't have even basic design knowledge get carte blanche to debate against designers (on design, not technical feasibility), and their positions are treated as equally valid because they see design expertise as art—a subjective matter of mere opinion.

If FLOSS devs want usable interfaces (and I'm not convinced many of them do) this is the problem that needs to be solved.

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

To gently disagree with you here: UI/UX work is absolutely not art,

UI without art is just a bunch of shitty buttons no one wants to press. Come to think of it, that's one of the problems with Gimp. There is a UI, it's just not a good one.

UX is arguably design. But most design departments would place UX as a mixed discipline.

scientific evidence as to how people see, perceive, and interact with things around them.

You're describing Usability. This is, in fact, its own discipline that should direct both UX and UI.

The problem of poor UX in FLOSS can’t be attributed to a lack of talent; the fact is that FLOSS projects are not hospitable environments for designers, both technically and culturally.

That's just saying it's a lack of talent because FOSS teams are inhospitable. Blanket statements like that ring as a stereotype.

their expertise is often treated as a difference of creative opinion by developers who know nothing about basic design principles

The consumers of the product know nothing about basic design principles either. Does their opinion not matter either?

If FLOSS devs want usable interfaces (and I’m not convinced many of them do) this is the problem that needs to be solved.

So, forgive me if I'm reading too much between the lines, but what you're saying here is if FLOSS wants better UI, they need to engage someone who says they're an accomplished UI artist and blindly execute their vision even against their own impressions of the requested work?

Maybe there are reasons the FLOSS devs don't want to sign up for that?

[–] nathan@friendica.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

@rumba

UI without art is just a bunch of shitty buttons no one wants to press.

You're describing Usability. This is, in fact, its own discipline that should direct both UX and UI.

Disagree. I do not believe that the design of a button is art. Even things like the roundness of the corners have justifications that relate to usability, which is an inherent part of design, and it always has been. Visual hierarchy is usability. Type selection is usability. Gestalt theory is usability. The hanging punctuation in medieval manuscripts is usability. UI, UX, usability: It's all just design. In fact, if you're a "designer" who is regularly putting out work that doesn't meaningfully consider usability, you may well be an artist instead!

That's just saying it's a lack of talent because FOSS teams are inhospitable. Blanket statements like that ring as a stereotype.

This is a thought-terminating cliché, but thanks for demonstrating my point by flatly negating my personal experience as a designer who does volunteer for FLOSS projects from time to time.

The consumers of the product know nothing about basic design principles either. Does their opinion not matter either?

This is a strawman. My point was not that no one's opinion but that of a designer matters. My point was that when designers are making recommendations based on their knowledge and experience that relate to design problems, the opinions of people who do not have expertise on these matters should not be treated with equal weight.

So, forgive me if I'm reading too much between the lines, but what you're saying here is if FLOSS wants better UI, they need to engage someone who says they're an accomplished UI artist and blindly execute their vision even against their own impressions of the requested work?

Yea, again, this is not what I'm saying. If a designer says "hey, we should probably put that button here for X and Y reasons," devs should have the humility to understand that, as a design professional, they probably have a reason for saying so that goes beyond 'I think it looks nicer.' That's the cultural component. The technical component is that FLOSS projects need to meet designers where they are and not ask them to use platforms they're likely not familiar with in order to participate.

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago

I agree to disagree, have a good one.