No good god would make an unlasting punishment. if you have forever, then even Hitler, Dahmer would have enough time for a finite punishment. Even the worst people in the world don't deserve a unlasting punishment.

[–] Maeve@midwest.social 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

The Nicean Council excluded a bunch of books, and Jesus was Jewish. In kabbalah, you learn about reincarnation, and so why did people think Jesus and John were OT prophets? So karma isn't a punishment, but a teacher, you repeat lessons, which are scaffolded, until they are mastered. Well, why don't you remember past life lessons? Why aren't crib sheets allowed in exams? Is doing the right thing only for personal gain still the right thing? Then no one should be upset with billionaires for reversing dei. And Jesus said the whole law can be summed love God, love your neighbor as yourself. Not better than, not less than. And that the kingdom of heaven is within us. Also the fall of the morning star gave "the devil" the earth as his dominion. "Be in the world, not of it," and "be wise as serpents, innocent as doves," eg be neither boot nor doormat. Love you neighbor as yourself. Ha-Satan is the prosecutor, who freely comes and goes into heaven (where is the Kingdom?) who lists every reason (sin) you don't get to be there (schism of self). And a defending angel can list one redeeming quality and you're in. You passed that particular lesson set. Now you have a new set.

Also Jesus said he teaches in parables, don't take things so literally. Why wouldn't he want every student to understand? They're not on that lesson set, yet. Someone just learning division isn't ready for trig.

[–] dontbelasagne@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

You make a great point about how we're not allowed to remember lessons. Wouldn't the world be more peaceful if everyone knew what lessons they had already learnt? Like say in one life someone insults someone with a disablity, the next life they're a person with the same disability and they remember the insults they said so they know how shitty they made that person feel? And in turn, would make them do the right thing more often, not because of personal gain but because it's the right thing to do. Without the memories, people could revert straight back to throwing insults. It's like putting a kindergartener in college math because "Well you've been here before so you must remember." but the kindergartener can't even do his times tables. How are we supposed to learn when we don't even know what lessons we've already learnt? When you're at school, you remember the previous lessons you've learnt and even have knowledge of them so why isn't it the same in a spiritual school?

[–] Maeve@midwest.social 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

My personal perspective is we forget because doing the right things for the wrong reasons, hoping for punishment or reward, is wrong. And also because variables change over time, so the lessons can't be presented in the same way. For instance the difference between common core multiplication and memorizing the tables.

Or another example, the periodic tables contain n elements at one time, x elements another.

So even if I remember the periodic tables from when I learned it (I don't!), they've changed in the decades since, so my knowledge is incomplete. Assuming I had the physical, mental, financial and material capacity to become a physicist, should I choose, I have a lot to relearn, unlearn, and learn new things, additionally. And that's just this lifetime.

I appreciate your non-hostile inquiry style. Thanks so much. Btw these things don't require God. It's just an allegorical tool. Just like communism has many approaches and corruptions as there are minds to conceive them, so too religions. Even Buddhism and Taoism.

[–] dontbelasagne@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Sure, lessons can't be presented in the same way. I agree with you on that. But different lessons while rembering the previous lessons would make life much more meaningful in my view.

It's like watching movies. Movies are not presented all the same way because that would be boring but having memories of all the movies you've seen makes you appreciate film even more, especially if it's a great one. A comedy movie has a different experience than a thriller movie but remembering the movies you've seen can make you appreciate the films even more. But now imagine watching rotating between superbad and taken and you don't even remember you've already watched them. That's what not remembering the lessons feels like to me.

I will always try and respect people's viewpoints even if I don't agree with them myself. You're also doing a good job at that, so well done.

[–] Maeve@midwest.social 1 points 2 hours ago

Thanks so much, I appreciate your respect and return it! If you're native English speaker, do you remember how to diagram sentences? If not, do you remember every from every class you've taken? Photographic memory allows for that, but even people with that gift forget things. My point is, it gives us a loose framework. Variable changes affect data, and if we're living in a lab, some variables aren't controlled for, we can't even be aware of every variable (Einstein's spookiness? Not sure, I have to go back and look, later). Or how "ethers" became gasses. Or demon possession became mental illness, but we still say we're fighting our demons. Sorry, I should be working so this is rushed.

I see it like a puzzle on a tabletop, but there's not room for the completed puzzle and all the pieces spread at once, so some being left in the boxtop. Generally, people find and place border pieces first, then put more pieces from the bottom on the table to fit into place. And I'm imperfect so there's that.

[–] beejboytyson@lemmy.world 2 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

I always wondered about that. When would enough be enough.

[–] dontbelasagne@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago

It could take hundreds or thousands of years but no one person deserves unending punishment for finite sins.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 2 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

Depends on the flavour of Christianity

At one end unforgiven sins condemn you to the ancient Greek underworld, slightly modified

At the other end you land in limbo if you haven't been perfect for a time that fits, thence to heaven for the rest of forever

Beyond that end, their god is infinitely forgiving so everyone goes straight to heaven.

[–] GoodLuckToFriends@lemmy.today 2 points 5 hours ago

At the other end you land in limbo if you haven’t been perfect

Slight correction, but limbo was the 'first' area of hell, where you just get bored forever. Purgatory was where you washed off the crusted shit on your soul and could eventually get into heaven.