this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2023
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if you can see this, it's up  

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hey folks, here's a quick update on our decision to defederate from sh.itjust.works! (and here's sh.itjust.works's side of this update)

we got in touch with the head admin over there, The Dude, and we had a pretty good chat about our concerns and reason for defederating. while immediate re-federation is just bluntly off the table with the rudimentary state of Lemmy's moderation tools, we now have a pretty good idea of the roadmap to refederating with them. we think we'll eventually be able to do this, although we don't have a timetable on when yet.

we're also now collaborating with him on how to move forward--and in the weeks and months to come we'll be pushing to expedite the process of developing some of the necessary tools. this decision has really helped us make connections that can hopefully realize those tools both on the desktop side and in apps being developed for Lemmy. we're also hoping to collaborate with other Lemmy administrators who have needs like our own, or just generally want more granular tools at their disposal.

we did also get in touch with the lemmy.world owner prior to defederating to share the concerns that prompted us to defederate[^1]--but we have not received any communication from him since it was levied, so there's no roadmap at all there as of now. we're always open to reconsidering and collaborating to end the defederation with him, but for now the earliest i can give you is "when mod tools are in a better state".

that's all for now folks. if any new significant developments take place we'll announce them as needed.

[^1]: we're only bringing this up now because it was just not useful information in the context of our announcement. it almost certainly would have been interpreted as some sort of callousness and/or brought unnecessary sectarianism and grief to him. at the end of the day he has his reasons and desires for running lemmy.world how he does, and we have ours for running Beehaw as we do. because of social and technological circumstances those are just incompatible right now, and that's fine.

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[–] Powderhorn@beehaw.org 13 points 2 years ago

I appreciate the update and link. While it seems like most of the people on the thread there understand that it's early days and this is more a reflection of kinks in Lemmy that need to be worked out than Beehaw being unreasonable, the exceptions to that underscore to a larger extent than the original defederation action why it needed to be taken.

There's a lot of entitlement out there of the how-dare-people-who-put-in-time-and-money-into-a-passion-project-feel-they-have-the-right-to-any-level-of-control-over-said-project variety.

[–] DarbyDear@beehaw.org 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Thank you for the transparency! I definitely understand the original decision to defederate (especially looking at the troll's post, which was linked to in The Dude's side of things), but I also look forward to better, more granular moderation and administration controls to come out so that refederation can happen.

I would also like to give kudos to the admin team and users over at sh.itjust.works - there's some good discussion going on over there in the thread linked here. I love that, despite the fundamental difference in views on how an instance should be run, it seems to be respectful on the whole. Even the people that firmly disagree with Beehaw's vision essentially leave it at "I think it can be done better, and want to demonstrate how." I think that's perfect, and encapsulates the benefit that Lemmy has over centralized platforms. There is also no support for the troll that triggered this situation to begin with.

[–] Viclan@beehaw.org 7 points 2 years ago

Definitely agree, the people overall over there seemed like fine folks who understood once they saw both mod teams communications on the defederation. There were a few people who took the worst possible interpretation and were trying to run with it, but a lot of the users there were shutting them down and explaining where they might be drawing conclusions. Overall really happy with the interactions on lemmy, lots of nuanced discussion and really just feels more laid back and good faith for a majority of the userbase

[–] mizmoose@beehaw.org 12 points 2 years ago

Thank you.

Like I said previously, sometimes you have to shut the doors on bad actors. But doors can be reopened if things become better.

[–] misguidedfunk@beehaw.org 11 points 2 years ago

Excellent news!

[–] brunofin@beehaw.org 11 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I'm curious what exactly you mean with "better modding tools". I am working on a iOS/Android app and I'm wondering if those are tools I could integrate into it.

What exactly are your needs?

[–] marco@beehaw.org 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

My guess is that this is referring to "auto moderator" and similar type of tools, so functionality that needs to first be created in the Lemmy core, before you could support them on your client.

[–] reid@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I remember reading a detailed post with a list of concrete mod tool improvement asks - things like the ability to filter the modlog to local only, or auto-report posts or comments containing certain keywords. Can anyone else find that? My searching is coming up empty. Maybe I dreamed it.

[–] okiegirl22@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago

Thanks for keeping us updated!

[–] DaughterOfMars@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago

Your work is the bee's knees!

[–] Lemmington@sopuli.xyz 10 points 2 years ago

This makes a lot of sense and the transparency is refreshing to see :)

[–] l4sgc@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago

I appreciate the transparency especially the link to sh.itjust.works's update. As a newcomer, one thing that confuses me about the fediverse is how communities with different moderation policies can be federated together. My impression now is that a comment has to be moderated separately by each instance in which it appears, so either a larger number of moderators or more advanced moderation tools would be required compared to a similarly sized community in a centralized network. Hopefully you continue to have productive conversations with the other instances and these issues are eventually able to be resolved.

[–] Cstrrider1@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago (3 children)

So new here does this mean that we cannot subscribe to communities in their instances or just the other way around?

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[–] SiioSytry@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago

thank you for the transparency

[–] hiperviper@beehaw.org 9 points 2 years ago

Thanks! You all are all-stars!

[–] promodel@beehaw.org 8 points 2 years ago

Thankyou for the updates.

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