this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2025
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Three prominent researchers warn about the current existential threat in the United States

Helmut Schwarz has been reading about what happened to science during the rise of Adolf Hitler, almost a century ago.

The German chemist just received the Frontiers of Knowledge Award from the BBVA Foundation in Spain, due to his contributions to the field of catalysis. For him, there are parallels between the situation in Nazi Germany and Trump’s United States.

“From 1900 to 1932, a third of all Nobel Prizes went to Germany, more than to the U.S. and the U.K. combined,” he tells EL PAÍS. He and two other scientists sat down with EL PAÍS in Bilbao, where they received their awards.

“When Hitler came to power,” he continues, “German science — which led the world — completely disintegrated. But Hitler thought that wouldn’t be a problem,” he continues. Now, Donald Trump’s administration views universities — supposed hotbeds of progressive ideology — as the enemy. He wants to bring them under his control. “In my opinion, the threat isn’t immediate, but it’s very important in the long term,” Schwarz adds.

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[–] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 82 points 4 days ago (3 children)

That's the weirdest part of trying to change the "system of science." It's not a system, it's a process, it's rigorous, controlled, and peer reviewed.

What Hitler enabled was psychopaths being allowed to practice torture and murder.

[–] protist@mander.xyz 43 points 4 days ago (2 children)

When he says "the scientific system," he's talking about the institutions we have in the US that educate, employ, conduct research, and/or fund people conducting science. I guess I thought it was obvious he's not referencing the scientific method

[–] Lodespawn@aussie.zone 19 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Oh boy I'd love to hear Donald J Trump's exact thoughts on the scientific method. Every damn thing he's has to say about it will be absolute gold.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 4 days ago

He would just parrot whatever the last person he spoke to said about it.

If he didn't talk to anyone about it beforehand, he would just talk about how "beautiful" our scientific methods are.

[–] blattrules@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

“My uncle was a scientist at MIT, so I think I know science better than most people. Also, magnets stop working if they get wet.”

[–] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 2 points 2 days ago

Magnets, how do they work?

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago

I can give it a try.

We're going to make America great again. Not great, VERY great. Tremendously great. Great economy, great people, great science.

Science today, it's not great. All these WOKE theories and hyperthees. That's not science, that's wasted money. The scientists today, they take our money. They give it to Harvard, woke Harvard. Spend it on DEI, not SCIENCE. They're cheating, taking advantage of HARD WORKING Americans. We don't pay them to ask questions. I KNOW science, that's NOT science. We tell them to do science, they don't DO science. They do SOME science, then they do it AGAIN, asking for money. That's FRAUD.

[–] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 6 points 4 days ago (5 children)

Even then, it will just slow research down and set us back. Scientists won't stop sciencing, and it certainly won't lead to discoveries they want.

The system they're describing helps but the people are the ones that matter, not the institutions.

My point is no matter their approach, they will not be able to control the outcome of scientific research. The anti-intellectual fails to understand this. It's the whole of their being.

[–] protist@mander.xyz 15 points 4 days ago

In the global long run, yes, you're right, however the point here is comparing what happened in Nazi Germany to what's happening now in the US. It's not about Trump's America trying to get "the discoveries they want," it's about eliminating objectivity and punishing party-line dissenters. They don't actually care about science at all one way or the other, they care about political control

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 4 days ago

Some of us remember the damage that Bush's stem cell research ban did and how it set the world back decades for literally no reason whatsoever.

This is going to be so much worse than that.

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[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago

Yeah, that is exactly what they're trying to do.

[–] ape_arms@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago

Thank you. Finally, a post that reflects what science actually is. I am do sick of people saying "Science says..."

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 51 points 4 days ago (1 children)

So, literally exactly what was promised. In excruciating detail.

It’s mind boggling how Trumps policy is twisted positively so relentlessly. There’s so much deciphering of “oh he really means this writes an essay.” No, his platform means what it says.

Then people are shocked when it happens!

[–] CitizenKong@lemmy.world 19 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Nobody took Mein Kampf seriously either.

[–] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Every platform I have warned about the alt-right rise since 2014 has absolutely buried me in downvotes, bans, and months of harassment

You fuckers get what you deserve, next time listen

[–] Mediocre_Bard@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago

If you're too stupid to understand basic science and too proud to admit it, then this is the course of action that you follow.

[–] clockworkrat@slrpnk.net 18 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Adrian Tchaikovsky is famous for being a prolific science fiction author.

He should also be known for his disturbingly accurate prediction of current events. I keep reading his work then finding the backstories becoming more realistic (and not in a good way).

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[–] AbnormalHumanBeing@lemmy.abnormalbeings.space 21 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Psychopaths, sycophants and grifters vying for power were all very prevalent at German universities and research labs at that time. While Engineering still kind of worked - as it was needed for the war machinery and larger industry - even there, with it being "politically neutral", there was a brain drain - because education allowing for creative thinking was curtailed more broadly, and many talented minds were killed or displaced or even just disfavoured in favour of more nepotistic choices.

And the myth of "German engineering" being fundamentally way above allied engineering during the war still holds in some circles, when mostly it was about different priorities (like - reliability instead of complex engineering, or the proximity fuse instead of rocketry, or radar instead of jet engines), and even in the spaces where Germans had a leg up on their enemies, it was not a fundamental advantage, but a gap that was being bridged even before German scientists were recruited after the war.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

As much as history was distorted, the Nazis regime still fancied itself as secular and intellectual, right?

This one seems to view the scientific establishment as a distrusted obstacle, corrupt. There’s not even the pretense. Demolishing “woke” science is the stated point.

[–] AbnormalHumanBeing@lemmy.abnormalbeings.space 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Sort of, they also had weird currents of esoteric nonsense, like "Welteislehre" for example. Or Himmlers expeditions to Tibet to find the origins of the master race and evidence of supetnatural abilities. They believed themselves to be secular and anticlerical, but they had their own cult with superstitions.

And they absolutely hated some scientists, relativity was a thorn in their eyes, for example, as "Jewish Science".

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago (3 children)

That's fascinating. I vaguely knew of the superstition angle, but not specifics or the extent.

There goes my afternoon, thanks.

But it does remind me of similar issues in other countries. China, for example (not to single them out) has issues with Eastern Medicine culture conflicting with scientific practices, right?

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[–] ramble81@lemmy.zip 16 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Luckily the reality that science attempts to measure doesn’t care about politics and will still exist no matter what he says. What it does mean is that it’ll be discovered in another country and the US will grow more and more isolated

[–] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Unfortunatly science is influenced by politics and ideology. Scientific research rely on funding by political and ideological funders

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[–] lobut@lemmy.ca 16 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Those of you that paid attention during the evolution and creationism (the round 2) fiasco should be familiar with what's going on right now.

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I remember during the GWBush years they tried this whole "put the 10 commandments in classrooms" thing, and they quietly pulled them after students started applying those 10 commandments to their teachers, religious leaders, parents, politicians...

They don't ACTUALLY want these kids learning the Bible because the Bible teaches love and generosity.

Thing is I think W was naive enough to kinda believe in that stuff. The bunch in charge now don’t at all, but they want the idolatry and compulsory indoctrination by coercion.

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[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 points 3 days ago

we were there with intelligent design as well.

[–] SolidShake@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago (6 children)

This has been the longest and most tiring 6 months I've ever experienced

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[–] nthavoc@lemmy.today 1 points 2 days ago

Brain drain is real and researchers in the US are already moving to other countries. Take for example France is enticing Nuclear scientists from the US for the fusion research project. History is definitely repeating itself.

[–] WanderWisley@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

History is written by the winners. Our current history is being rewritten by a crybaby, selfish, nazi.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 9 points 4 days ago (3 children)

I say let them.

Iran was a progressive country once too and look how it is now. Also look at it's power nowadays. The US wants to be Gillead from the handmaid's tale? Then go ahead. You'll be a third world country, unable to feed your own population, within a few years.

Good luck

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

it was progressive, until the USA backed the shah of iran, which turned into islamic state because of the USA meddling.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

Very correct. It's just weird to see them now doing the same to themselves.

I get the mass murdering and deporting immigrants and such (definitely not agreeing with it, but I get it, imprison, torture, and murder your enemies for your own good)

I don't get the rejection of science. This WILL destroy the country in loads of inventive and not so fun ways. It's plain dumb, but here we are.

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[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 days ago (3 children)

I'm not sure I've detected an ideology on the right. They seem to be the most idealess people to have ever been pussyshat.

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[–] alaphic@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago (8 children)

Yeah, uhmm... I'm pretty sure - checks notes - yeah, that's actually the exact opposite of how science works... Thanks for playin, tho!

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[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago

good, nothing would destroy the USA harder in the long term

[–] Etterra@discuss.online 4 points 3 days ago

Are these guys just now figuring this out?

[–] acosmichippo@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago (7 children)
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[–] TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca 6 points 4 days ago

Then, a few years from now they will continue to ask why they need to continue to import their scientists from other countries.

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