I Made This
Did you make something? Do you want the fleeting rush of endorphins that come with affirmation from strangers? Do you think what you made is neat? Share it here!
Paintings, movies, music, drawings, models, gardens, houses, snowmen, sandcastles - if you made it, you can post it.
RULES:
AI-generated content is banned in all forms.
Some things you make are not to be shared. These include:
- Messes
- Children
- Biological... byproducts
- Bigotry
- No racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, classism, or bigotry of any kind.
- Don't try to sell stuff unless people ask. You can post your Etsy (or similar) if someone prompts you. No spamming self-promotion.
<3
Sorry to be a party pooper but I’m from a country that went through multiple stages of this already. I say this because I care.
Peaceful protest don’t do much. For them to work your opponent would need to have conscience or to be able to feel shame (your opponent is not Trump voters btw). Trump will inevitably be voted out because he’s just incompetent at running a country. You should be planning for what happens next (competent autocrat like Orban) and what you are doing now is just showing politicians of every side that they can consolidate power by doing those desperate marches. In a couple of years it will be a picnic for the most hardcore, being called whenever whenever a party leader needs to reconfirm their leadership position. Once that ends giving people a kick they’ll vote for actual bad guys because underlying issues that led people to vote for Trump (which is not that they hate gays or immigrants, that’s just a byproduct) won’t change because of marching.
I don't disagree with most of your analysis but to be clear, lots of the protests aren't peaceful as the national guard and riot squads show up, and protests that are peaceful aren't pointless, they just aren't the whole solution.
To me they're a way of increasing public pressure on the opposition party to get its act together, because ultimately it will either take politicians who can build and implement effective strategies to head off the decent into authoritarianism, or it will take violent revolution should that fail.
Thats not a fun path. Doing something that shows publy outcry has value with respect going that first path. And broadly I think it's much more counter productive to look at ways people are trying to get more involved and participate in the solution and tell them that it's pointless without suggestions as to what would be more productive (unless their strategy is actively harmful to the cause) because hope is a necessity if we're going to avoid full blown authoritarianism.
One of our very explicit "loss conditions" is if we don't care enough and just let it happen. People getting involved in the ways they can is, if nothing else, a valuable source of hope that makes it easier to keep up the long fight its going to take to even have any chance at avoiding where we're headed
To me they're a way of increasing public pressure on the opposition party to get its act together, because ultimately it will either take politicians who can build and implement effective strategies to head off the decent into authoritarianism, or it will take violent revolution should that fail.
I’m not sure how one leads to the other. Are you going to vote for a third party? No, because you think it’s a lost vote. You have no leverage and Democrats will just adopt whatever is popular with people and that’s a taste for easy solutions and revenge. I think marching is feeding helplessness because ultimately you’ll see it doesn’t do anything and by the time you realise you’re wasting energy it’s already too late. Speaking from experience of a country that doesn’t even have a two-party system but the guard rails of this process are impressively precise in outcomes.
I’m at the step where I break law frequently for safety of my surrounding but turns out nobody else wants change using bricks and bottles as long as they have 9-5 and TV in the afternoon.
I'm really not sure why you think it's cool to go around ascribing what I will or won't do, or speaking for me on how I'd vote.
I think how you vote is incredibly complicated and there are a lot of merits to a lot of different approaches, how I decide to vote is down to the totality of circumstances, and it's a dick move to tell people what they will or won't do when discussing their perspectives
And just like peaceful protests has flaws, so does intentionally violent protest- if you give the authoritarians exactly what they need to frame you as the bad guys and you don't have the public trust needed for the public to see through that, thats a huge loss for your cause. Both peaceful protest and violent revolution have achieved different things under different circumstances.
I'm not laboring under the delusion that because I personally go to peaceful protests, the problem will be avoided. That would be dumb; I believe there's a very good chance we'll fail, but I intend to do what I can. But connecting with other people, building a sense of community, and having a positive experience voicing my dissatisfaction with others gets me more involved, gives me more energy, and helps me hold on to hope.
Regardless, please don't ascribe me motives or put words in my mouth as to how I would or wouldn't vote, I find that an incredibly unpleasant way to be interacted with
If you’re okay with consequences that I described (it happened in multiple places already but maybe there’s American exceptionalism at play), or are just a liberal and like what liberals have been doing then you’re probably getting everything you need out of those marches. That’s fine but then the point of this post seems to be communicating how much of a cool guy/gal you are and that’s just vanity and not real action.
The point is making protest more visible and sharing that it was a positive experience, in the hopes that more people get involved, more people think about what they can be doing, and even more people show up next time.
Again, you're ascribing me motives and judging me based on the assumptions or decisions you've made about who you think I am. That sucks, and it will only ever create unpleasant, unproductive interactions.
Once protest is very visible, what happens then?
To be clear, if your next comment tells me who you've decided I am and judges me based on the assumptions you've made about me I'm just not gonna reply.
Which is fine if you don't think there's any common ground to be found or whatever, but I'm not here to argue pointlessly because someone has made up their mind as to what I think, and doesn't care what I say I believe or what priorities I express.
I’m asking how one thing leads to the other or what your end goal expectations are. I didn’t ask those questions when I did what you did and feel kind of dumb now. Wanted to spare you that.
What I’ve learned is that if your action doesn’t convince those already convinced of the opposite then it’s a wasted effort unless you’re building a tribe that feels superior to the other. Tribes are a bad way to go about politics.
I can appreciate and respect that. And I 1000000% agree that a lot of political action these days is divisive and counter productive because the goal is to bring people in and increase the number of people who stand for your cause, not shut people off. Thats something I feel super strongly about. People absolutely spend a lot of time speaking at people they disagree with in order to gain approval from those they already agree with.
The other reply is my list of hopes for involvement. I can completely understand wanting people to think about what their end goal is. I think saying things like "great work! Don't forget it takes more than marches but keep it up!" Is super helpful and makes it easier for people to remember that there's a bigger picture beyond marching with signs.
I want to find more ways to get involved, but I'm starting with small things, and I do believe those small things (peaceful protests and demonstrations) have value, even if they're not enough on their own. I think they're one piece of a puzzle, one strategic tool, and you kinda have to use them all and use them at the right times and in the right places
https://lemmy.world/comment/17693663 I dunno how to link to a comment in an instance agnostic way, but this is the comment where I list the things I'm hoping to achieve by going to a protest and making that very visible so people see that protests are happening
I think the more people you get involved in small ways, the more of those people might get involved in bigger ways.
It gives more people a way to feel connected to the people around them and to find hope and motivation and solidarity at a time when those things are both hard and absolutely necessary if we want any chance of doing anything at all.
The larger the public displays, the harder it will be for political parties to ignore including the Democrats.
And the more people remain peaceful when the state escalates, the more public approval you can build, and the more public approval you have, the more you can escalate without polarizing people and loosing that public trust. I believe it's a needed resource.
And I'll put it here since you replied before I could edit my previous comment (which is fine, I just thought I had a moment to add an extra thought at the end that I assume you didn't see)
Please don't ascribe me motives like "you're doing this out of vanity", or tell me what I am or am not going to do. Thats like 6 steps past talking past each other. I think discouraging people is harmful to the cause but that's a discussion we can have. But not respecting me enough to actually talk to me and hear what I'm saying instead of just deciding who you think I am, and judging me based on your assumptions is wildly uncalled for. That will only ever result in crappy, unproductive interactions, and is also just a really crappy way to treat people.
Studies show protests do make a difference, eg. https://www.asanet.org/for-press/press-releases/do-protests-matter-new-study-examines-how-protests-bring-about-change/
Yeah, up to a certain point in time when autocrats realised that they don’t have to do shit and wait them out.
I'll tell you what really doesn't help - naysaying
I’d rather have people learn from failures of the others rather than repeat them.
If you have some lessons, share them, don't just say "don't try"
I don’t have answers you’re looking for. Christian fundamentalists refined their playbook to perfection in Europe by now. We’re so fucked that I became an accelerationist. Liberals seem unable to learn anything and keep banging their heads because they won’t do anything that would upset business. Going to those marches is just further enabling them. Maybe you’ll get further if you skip futile steps.
Don’t need to know how to swim to tell someone’s drowning.
the live love life of protests
Lol, it kinda is. We almost didn't make signs at all but I'm glad we did, even if pretty generic
Though given our audience was cars I feel like simple, easy to read messages were helpful
At one point an old guy slowed down suuuuper slow before he'd gotten to the line where you stop at the light, and strained his neck and squinted trying to read, before going "ahh" and then started honking and waving, and giving a thumbs up lol
It was an absolute highlight 😂 he needed to figure out what he was signing on with before he joined in, it made me so happy lol
How about we flash the crazy demo sometime soon?