Memes

You have the freedom to choose God or face an eternity of unimaginable suffering.

Did god not have the power to give us free will without also giving us evil?

• Had the power but opted not to: god is himself some part evil

• Didn't have the power, did the best he could with the tools he had: god is not omnipotent.

Pick one.

Well, since this is a religious discussion, I'm a Christian. It's always God.

Job 1:6-12 very clearly shows God granting permission for Satan to test Job.

1 Kings 22:19-22 shows the "court in heaven" and God soliciting ideas from spirits for enticing Ahab to attack Ramoth Gilead, where he will die. When a good suggestion is made, God grants permission.

Exodus 10:1-2 states clearly that God hardened Pharaoh's heart to not let the slaves go, so that God could display his "signs" (plagues).

Satan is a liar, and the father of lies.

Romans 9:19-21 NIV

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

Yup.

The teachings of Christianity don't make any fucking sense. (Unless you're willing to gaslight yourself for a lifetime.)

Thought terminating cliche

What shits me is Christians (and Jews and Muslims, but it's mainly Christians who do this) who just handwave away the problem of evil. Like fine, I can accept that some evils might arise as a result of human decisions and free will. Things like wars and genocides are done by people. It's difficult to swallow even that much with the idea of a god who supposedly knows all, is capable of doing anything, and is "all good", but fine, maybe free will ultimately supplants all that.

But what I absolutely cannot accept is any claim that tries to square the idea of a god with the triple-omnis with the fact that natural disasters happen. That children die of cancer. You try telling the parents of a child slowly dying of a painful incurable disease that someone could fix it if they wanted, and they completely know about it, but that they won't. And then try telling them that person is "all good". See how they react.

I find religious people who believe in the three omnis after having given it any amount of serious consideration to be absolutely disgusting and immoral people.

I think you can have this same dilemma as an atheist as well. I'm personally agnostic as I don't have the knowledge to make a decision.

If we are all just atoms moving/reacting, surely everything we'd ever do would be predetermined by the initial reactions/vectors/forces at the big bang. I know there's quantum randomness and stuff, but it's possible that's all calculable and we simply don't have the means to calculate it. If that's the case, IMO we still have freewill because we can't predict the future, and it's still worthwhile to move forward doing our best to be good people.