1 Kings 22:19-22 shows the "court in heaven" and God soliciting ideas from spirits for enticing Ahab to attack Ramoth Gilead, where he will die. When a good suggestion is made, God grants permission.

Exodus 10:1-2 states clearly that God hardened Pharaoh's heart to not let the slaves go, so that God could display his "signs" (plagues).

Satan is a liar, and the father of lies.

Romans 9:19-21 NIV

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

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[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 19 points 2 days ago (46 children)

What shits me is Christians (and Jews and Muslims, but it's mainly Christians who do this) who just handwave away the problem of evil. Like fine, I can accept that some evils might arise as a result of human decisions and free will. Things like wars and genocides are done by people. It's difficult to swallow even that much with the idea of a god who supposedly knows all, is capable of doing anything, and is "all good", but fine, maybe free will ultimately supplants all that.

But what I absolutely cannot accept is any claim that tries to square the idea of a god with the triple-omnis with the fact that natural disasters happen. That children die of cancer. You try telling the parents of a child slowly dying of a painful incurable disease that someone could fix it if they wanted, and they completely know about it, but that they won't. And then try telling them that person is "all good". See how they react.

I find religious people who believe in the three omnis after having given it any amount of serious consideration to be absolutely disgusting and immoral people.

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[–] Jhogenbaum@leminal.space 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Did Calvin write this post?

[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

It was Hobbes who said...

"But his Lordship [tells]us that God is wholly here, and wholly there, and wholly every where; because he has no parts. I cannot comprehend nor conceive this. For methinks it implies also that the whole world is also in the whole God, and in every part of God. Nor can I find anything of this in the Scripture. If I could find it there, I could believe it; and if I could find it in the public doctrine of the Church, I could easily abstain from contradicting it."

[–] GoodLuckToFriends@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago

Only the right half. Arminius was responsible for the left.

[–] popcap200@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 days ago (26 children)

I think you can have this same dilemma as an atheist as well. I'm personally agnostic as I don't have the knowledge to make a decision.

If we are all just atoms moving/reacting, surely everything we'd ever do would be predetermined by the initial reactions/vectors/forces at the big bang. I know there's quantum randomness and stuff, but it's possible that's all calculable and we simply don't have the means to calculate it. If that's the case, IMO we still have freewill because we can't predict the future, and it's still worthwhile to move forward doing our best to be good people.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 22 points 2 days ago (15 children)

My take is that there is no free will, but that this fact is irrelevant and we're all better off just behaving as though we do.

[–] popcap200@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

Yeah. It's a fair take, and this is generally what I was getting at.

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[–] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 days ago (3 children)

That's not a dilemma for atheists because atheists aren't the ones claiming there's an omnipotent being guiding everything.

Also, you can be both an atheist and an agnostic. They cover different things. I'm fairly certain you'd consider yourself an atheist in regards to the sun god Ra.

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[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It's "free will" vs determinism (or other options).

The problem is that our entire violent society is based on the pseudo-scientific, religious concept of "free will". It's what has justified prisons, etc. since the dawn of the christian fascism.

Scientifically the problem is that there's not much evidence for "free will". It's largely an illusion of consciousness.

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[–] RoidingOldMan@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

George W Bush

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-god-told-me-to-invade-iraq-6262644.html

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